Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Discuss night vision equipment and technology

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Postby NV Supplies » Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:34 am

David,

Your experiences providing a computer repair service mimics mine, except I never found a suitable solution. Instead, I gave it up.

Customers must have thought I was getting parts for free, and the time (mine) cost of testing/replacement/retesting their computer was covered in the price of the parts. A prime example would be fitting a £10 modem.

Firstly I would need to clean out the filth found inside a box that had not been clean since its original purchase, maybe years before. ISA (hardware) modems performed better than the early PCI (software) modems, and using them often meant 'shuffling' cards around the motherboard. Once the operating system was persuaded to see all the cards (including modem), it was necessary to both install fax software, and test it actually worked. [Both send and receive.]

And how much would the customer expect to pay for 'supply install and test' a £10 modem? ........ £10. Not that I did the job for £10, as I can't work for free, as much as I wish I could..... :roll:


One of the big problems with this NV repair, was the local Customs charges of circa €80. Without this paperwork, the scope just couldn't move into and out of the country. Since it's an expensive bit of kit (even though it's non-working), I only send this stuff around the world using UPS, and sometimes the slightly less careful DHL. Each way carriage was always going to be around £125 per trip minimum because of the units value. [Insurance cover can be expensive when cover is £1000+.] So you are looking at £300, without the cost of a local repair.

On the face of it, it sounds like an uneconomic repair, and to a degree, it is. I could have bought back one of our own supplied units that had very few hours on it, for £1200 recently. It has a better quality tube than Chris Tylers, and since I knew all of its past, I knew it was reliable. the new owner, is very happy.

The tubes in the unit Chris is looking to have repaired, weren't very reliable. He says the tube works, but two repairs on something we know isn't reliable, doesn't bode well. Unlike a local UK repair, if it goes back to the manufacturers, it'll be repaired to the current factory specification. Which I can tell you, if significantly better than it was 5 years ago.


On the table now, if the offer for Chris to 'piggy-back' on another return. I don't know his unit would go back for 50% of the total (ie £150) as the total may grow with the additional insurance costs. But it's cheaper than the alternatives. Junk the system.... Pay someone else to return the unit at full costs. This option wasn't available initially, but as I've pointed out to Chris, it's one he shouldn't walk away from. To take advantage of it, all he has to do is agree to let me do it, AND delete/amend this thread to remove the inference I'm a liar and a rogue?

But it seems this isn't an attractive option? :?:





I certainly did send someone a PSU some years ago, but it was to a UK address? :oops:

I still have boxes of (older) computer parts, if ever you needed more.... :lol:


....
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Postby NV Supplies » Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:47 pm

PM sent. 8)
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Postby NV Supplies » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:17 pm

Update:

As many here might imagine, with my cage rattled I contacted Mr Tyler as was suggested I would. I sent an email, the 'sent' copy confirms to me that it went on 4th Nov.

The question asked by myself was this: Do you want me to return the scope for repair to Belarus, which I will do if you delete that (this) thread? Or do you want me to return the scope unfixed, with/without insurance?

I got an email delivered 3 hours ago, I've just read. The basic gist of the email was "Where's my NV? It's still not been delivered." For the record, I've never offered 'free' carriage anywhere. I'm still waiting for it to be collected, or for payment for it to be returned.

As it happens ......


As I'd waited 6 weeks for an answer, and the 'other' scope owner was waiting for some movement on his scope. So against my better judgement, I sent them both to Belarus anyway.

I'd been advised by the manufacturers [Electro Optic Ltd] that Customs restrictions in their country had been relaxed recently [not true] and that I could send the goods to them for repair. They used to be a supplier to us after all, so it's not like they don't our company ..... And it's not like we haven't had to send stuff back for warranty repair before either ....

We advised UPS would be the carrier. [A mistake.] They suggested Royal Mail or EMS. Unfortunately, they didn't tell me why. If they had, and despite the insurance cover offered by R.M. costing the same as a return flight to Minsk, I might have considered using someone other than UPS.


I rang UPS and checked on the Customs paperwork procedures and requirements. They advised (incorrectly) and I followed their guidance. I personally took the package to the local UPS depot (something I've done before) and again asked about Customs requirements at Belarus. Again told (wrongly) I only had to complete a simple form, and the item would be at the consignee in 6 days.


I paid up, two scopes went abroad.


The package got held up at UPS (Minsk) quarantine. Reason? No-one at UPS knew....

Several (perhaps 5 or 6 each way) between me and E.O. Ltd, and another 4 with UPS I eventually got to the real problem. [UPS knew nothing. Their contribution in all this, was to tell me nothing was happening in Belarus.]


While it may be common knowledge to many, seemingly UPS doesn't know (and I asked them many times, so they had ample opportunity to find out), temporary imports in Belarus have to be signed for, and a return date provided by the signee. This 'agreement' has to be put together before the goods are released from quarantine, which means personal collection.

This was something E.O. Ltd failed to tell me, before shipping. Not only did they tell me the Customs requirements had relaxed (I have this in writing), they didn't tell me about the 'temporary' arrangement at their end.

It would seem, collecting the scopes from UPS involved the following:

Drive 50 miles to UPS (Minsk airport).
Queue for 30 minutes.
Pay €35 Euros to process Customs paperwork.
Drive 50 miles (back) to factory.

Outbound journey:

Drive 50 miles to UPS (Minsk airport).
Queue for 30 minutes.
Pay €35 Euros to process Customs paperwork.
Drive 50 miles back to factory.


When I first heard this, I discussed it with UPS, and they were ADAMANT they'd deliver to the factory, and knew of no circumstances this wouldn't be possible.

E.O. Ltd, offered to collect, with a charge for collecting. Mindful the journey times/distance, and mindful UPS claim they'd deliver, I asked they wait for UPS to deliver.

About 2 days later, when it became obvious that UPS weren't going to deliver, Electro Optics refused to honour their offer. In fact they said I would now have to pay for the units to be returned to the UK, and pay again for them to be sent back to Belarus via EMS. [The EMS office is only a 10 minute drive away, unlike the UPS office. Which is why they suggested - not recommended - EMS in the first place. I now know.]


So, the units are on their way back to the UK, with delivery expected tomorrow, or the following day. I'm MORE money out, with carriage costs at UK£115 each way. The exercise in educating UPS costing me UK£230, and probably being Electro Optics 2009 Christmas joke thrown in for good measure.


Electro Optics Ltd, Belarus.

This outfit cost/wasted our company over UK£800 in advertising earlier this year. They originally agreed to supply us (and did) with me telling them, we weren't going to promote their products without some sort of agreement. Which they gave. So we spent the money on advertising.

When we came to place our second order, to the value of UK£10,000 they refused to supply us. Why didn't I just walk away then? :roll:


The reason, 3 unhappy NV owners looking for help is why. I returned 2 units of the 3 on the understanding E.O. Ltd would repair them. I used their guidance on getting the repairs completed, and basically got 'stitched up' as we say in the UK.

We're now over UK£1000 out of pocket trying to deal with this company. I would suggest to anyone reading this who might be considering a purchase, they should seriously consider the background to this sorry tale [failed tubes - lies - their level of support] when thinking of spending money on one of their products.


Mr Tylers unit will be back soon. I've emailed him, that I will return his scope under written instruction, and after receiving cleared funds to cover carriage cost. [He's not expected to pay for anything other than the carriage back to his home.] I will include full instructions on the Customs procedure for temporary import into Belarus, and full contact details of the untrustworthy people at Electro Optic Ltd (Belarus). If he wishes to make his own arrangements, I'm sure they'll tell him it will be okay to do so.

Personally, I'd sell the unit to someone looking for a 2nd hand body (which is practically unused as it's failed 3 times now) and be rid of it.


....
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Postby Dino1130 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:35 pm

Wow :roll: I can see the frustration on both ends. I never knew getting something fixed in the EU involved all this rolling threw the hay. Looks like you did everything you could to get the mans scope fixed. It is unfortunate that he still has a broken scope with what seems little chance of a resolution. This has cost all sides emotionally and financially and you are still left with the same problem.

I think you did all you could and went above and beyond for a scope you did not even sell to him. I can see the frustration on the scope owners part who is out much hard earned money. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and stop the bleeding. Enough is enough. Sell the scope for parts or whatever and move on. This scope just seems like an old car that wants to nickel and dime you to death. At this point I would just send the man his scope back on my dime and get on with life. Write it off as a loss, then go have a beer to celebrate it being over ! :D
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby christyler » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:08 am

UPDATE:

Just thought i would update anyone that is interested, So far i havent received the scope back ??? The last email i got from him was in January asking my address again.

I replyed as requested but have received no scope and no reply to my mails.

I have now asked "what exactly is the problem". I just cant understand why he just cant send it back to me.
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Langy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:20 am

christyler wrote:UPDATE:

Just thought i would update anyone that is interested, So far i havent received the scope back ??? The last email i got from him was in January asking my address again.

I replyed as requested but have received no scope and no reply to my mails.

I have now asked "what exactly is the problem". I just cant understand why he just cant send it back to me.


Have you provided postage funds for the scope to be returned to you, as reqested by night vision supplies ???? :roll:
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby IHJ » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:47 pm

Tell you what Chris!

I'll contact Geof Davies myself and find out the 'postal charges' (from him to you, not the half way round the World bit)
& if they are below £30.00 I will pay them ! (slowest/cheapest service, mind you).


I know Geof ('of old', as they say), he's a bit of a grim b@stard at times, but he does what is right and wont vary.

[Rock & a fella called Chris :wink: ]
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Langy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:21 pm

IHJ wrote:Tell you what Chris!

I'll contact Geof Davies myself and find out the 'postal charges' (from him to you, not the half way round the World bit)
& if they are below £30.00 I will pay them ! (slowest/cheapest service, mind you).


I know Geof ('of old', as they say), he's a bit of a grim b@stard at times, but he does what is right and wont vary.

[Rock & a fella called Chris :wink: ]

You could make it a condition that he burdens no other poor unsuspecting company with his (you pay for all expences whilst my lemon is in your hands) defunct scope!!!! :idea:
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Dino1130 » Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:07 pm

I don't have a dog in this fight but I just can't believe it has gone on for so long ! Hell, Just give the guy his scope back and I will even chip in for shipping, :roll:
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Langy » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:11 pm

Dino1130 wrote:I don't have a dog in this fight but I just can't believe it has gone on for so long ! Hell, Just give the guy his scope back and I will even chip in for shipping, :roll:

LOL! Send all donations to the christyler disaster fund! :lol:
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby IHJ » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:43 am

I have now had an E-mail back from Geof Davies:
The gist is this, The Sight is wrapped and sitting in his office, he's currently arranging his Father's funeral (& lost another family member recently), Geof's also had some health issues.

He might be able to get it sent, (so I presume Chris has paid), tomorrow (Friday) but its more likely to be Monday (he has a house full of relatives now).
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Stanley » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:36 am

It's obvious who dropped the ball but after two pages of this, what was actually wrong with the unit?

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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby Dino1130 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:42 am

From what I gather re reading the post it is a problem with the tube itself. I would guess some kind of power supply failure. Not to many details have been given that nail the problem down.I would think a Russian tube being it was shipped to Belarus.

"The tubes in the unit Chris is looking to have repaired, weren't very reliable. He says the tube works, but two repairs on something we know isn't reliable, doesn't bode well. Unlike a local UK repair, if it goes back to the manufacturers, it'll be repaired to the current factory specification. Which I can tell you, if significantly better than it was 5 years ago."


"I would suggest to anyone reading this who might be considering a purchase, they should seriously consider the background to this sorry tale [failed tubes - lies - their level of support] when thinking of spending money on one of their products.


Mr Tylers unit will be back soon. I've emailed him, that I will return his scope under written instruction, and after receiving cleared funds to cover carriage cost. [He's not expected to pay for anything other than the carriage back to his home.] I will include full instructions on the Customs procedure for temporary import into Belarus, and full contact details of the untrustworthy people at Electro Optic Ltd (Belarus). If he wishes to make his own arrangements, I'm sure they'll tell him it will be okay to do so. "
I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn’t know how to use it.
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby IHJ » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:40 am

Well it looks like this is the company concerned:

http://electrooptic.by/

Bit of a cranky website but that doesn't mean much. I semi-recognize some of the NV units (& a lot of their IR illuminators, if they make them), if you do some detective work you'll see there is a UK distributor listed (since when, I dont know) & its a chap well known in the UK for NV tube repairs :?:

Now he's famous for being a slow worker ( :wink: ) but I wonder if he did the first 2 repairs, if so this story/saga is a bit like asking Michael & the guys to re-fix an ATN unit bought from, say, Carl in Ireland !!!

I should point out that actually its Mr Davies Senior funeral on Monday, so it would be Tuesday, if its next week. (mis-read by me).
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Re: Geoffrey Davies, Nightvision supplies ltd. What is he like

Postby pandamonia » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:09 am

Thus is the state of the Night vision market in the UK.

Photonis DEP rip us off - they should of never been allowed to merge.
Thomas Jacks add £200-£500 to the cost of everything they get compared to a shop in germany who sell the same products even though the Euro is crap exchange!
No one tells you the specs of the tubes.
Russian tech is everywhere and the only company to offer a real warranty is PULSAR and YUKON. 3-4 years
To many 1 man outfits running a part time night vision company.

its a sorry state of affairs when Ebay gives you a higher quality of product at a better price than you can buy legit in your home market
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